1 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,840 Good morning. 2 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:34,120 My name is Meredith Abarca. 3 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,800 I am in Texas. 4 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,200 Today is April 10th, 11th, 5 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,200 2025. 6 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,080 And I'm about to do an interview with Carole Counihan, who is in Colorado 7 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,200 at the moment. 8 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:53,600 So, this we're doing a recording. 9 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,920 First of all, I need to have your official permission 10 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,920 to record this session. 11 00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:02,320 You have my permission. 12 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,840 Thank you. To record. 13 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,840 Thank you. 14 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,200 So, why are we doing this recording? 15 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,120 This is part of the the Association for the Study of 16 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,000 Food and Society, has been founded. 17 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:22,080 Was founded in 1985 to promote the interdisciplinary study of food 18 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:23,400 and society. 19 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,520 As part of the celebration, the fourth, 40th, 20 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:29,440 anniversary. 21 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,440 We are trying to, record, 22 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,080 the, the history of this organization, 23 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:40,120 and to reflect its role 24 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,480 in the broad field of food studies as part of this effort. 25 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,280 We are conducting a series of video interviews with esteemed 26 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:48,720 individuals like yourself, 27 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,720 to gather insights about the Association 28 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,360 for the Study of Food and Society's past, present, and future. 29 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,720 So, that's our goal of this interviews. 30 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,720 So, thank you very much for participating 31 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:04,120 with me today. 32 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,120 I said, Carole Counihan, but I will let her introduce herself. 33 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,240 So, I would like to start by by asking you simply just to tell us, 34 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:12,480 a little bit about who you are. 35 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:13,360 Where are you from? 36 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,360 What did you do your studies? 37 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,520 And where where have you done 38 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,600 most of your teaching and research? 39 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,960 So, we can just begin by mapping. 40 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,960 Help us do a little journey of who Carole Counihan is. 41 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:28,000 Okay. 42 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:33,240 Well, I did my academic studies at Stanford. 43 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,240 I got my BA in History there. 44 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,760 And then I went for my doctorate to the University of Massachusetts 45 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,880 in Amherst, where I got a doctorate in Cultural Anthropology. 46 00:02:45,640 --> 00:02:47,920 Most of my teaching was done 47 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:51,000 at Millersville University in Pennsylvania. 48 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:57,320 It's a state university, focused mainly on teaching. 49 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:02,800 We had very few graduate programs, so it was mainly an undergraduate population. 50 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:08,560 And I got into the study of food and culture very early, way 51 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:14,080 back in the 1970s when I was doing my doctoral dissertation 52 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,000 research and decided to do a food topic. 53 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,360 How about you talk of the universities other than the the one that you described? 54 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:24,560 Because I believe I'm aware. 55 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,120 I mean, I have a knowledge that you've taught in Italy, too. 56 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:28,680 So, can you tell us 57 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,680 about some other universities that you had through the course of your career? 58 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,600 Yes, I have taught, 59 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,600 mainly at the University of Gastronomic 60 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,600 Sciences in Pollenzo. So, 61 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:45,640 I taught there from when they started that university 62 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,960 in 2004 through 2016. 63 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,640 I would go every year and teach the anthropology of food, and 64 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:00,880 I got into that through some colleagues that I met through the Slow Food movement. 65 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,320 And I was initially working on the magazine Slow 66 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,240 with a bunch of Italians and international scholars. 67 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,200 And then they went on to work with the Slow Food 68 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:17,680 Organization to start what some call Slow Food University. 69 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:22,880 But what's official name is the University of Gastronomic Sciences, 70 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,760 and I taught in their graduate program every year, 71 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:31,240 as I said, from 2004 to 2016. 72 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,880 It was very, very interesting and fun. 73 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:40,240 I've also been a visiting professor at the University of Cagliari 74 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,280 in Sardinia, University of Sassari in Sardinia. 75 00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:49,960 I've done speaking tours at the University of Padova. 76 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,200 Also, at the École des Hautes Etudes 77 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:58,800 en Sciences Socials in Marseilles, France, 78 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,520 and the University of Malta and maybe some other places. 79 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,520 But, that about covers it. 80 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:10,320 Thank you for 81 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,320 for that trajectory of all the places you work. 82 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,560 You are officially retired, correct? 83 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,240 Correct. 84 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,080 When did you retire? 85 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,600 I retired from Millersville 86 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:29,160 in 2012, and I continued after that. 87 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,360 I taught at Boston University in their Master's program 88 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,040 in Gastronomy from 89 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,440 I think 2011 to 2013. 90 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:45,520 I taught a semester there a year, and then I continued teaching, doing 91 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,480 the Italian teaching, until completely retired 92 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,720 in 2016 from teaching. 93 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,960 I'm still active in the field as editor 94 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,960 of the scholarly journal Food and Foodways. 95 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:01,480 Wonderful. 96 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,480 That that brings me to to the next question. 97 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:05,840 The topic 98 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:07,080 maybe frame it as topics 99 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,080 rather than than questions. 100 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,240 Which is the the field of food studies? 101 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,840 I mean, you've mentioned a number of things already in terms of slow food, 102 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:19,560 and maybe you can tell us a little more. What does that actually means? 103 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:20,840 Why did it started? 104 00:06:20,840 --> 00:06:23,760 But but I want to sort of 105 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,480 take us back a little bit and, and begin by your own 106 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,520 trajectory, by your own sort of exploration, into food studies. 107 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,960 Think about some of your early works that, that you wrote about, the body 108 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,360 and food and, and sort of walk us 109 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,200 through how your do 110 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,840 what food studies means to you? How you have approached it in your research? 111 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,080 And what changes do you see are happening now in the area of food studies? 112 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,440 I believe the you know, I think it's fair to say that when you started 113 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,400 working with food studies, as well as and when I did, you know, 25 years ago, 114 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,520 what we understand today as the concept of food studies and disciplines 115 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:00,680 didn't quite existed then. 116 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:02,200 So, I think 117 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,640 you've been a pioneer, and sort of marking that path. 118 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,000 So I would love to hear from you. 119 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:09,680 Where 120 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:11,320 Carole's as a scholar 121 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,360 sort of begun your research? 122 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,240 But also, how do you see the field changing? 123 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,320 So, maybe we can begin by defining it and then sort of 124 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,320 take us through through the different stages of your own research 125 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,000 and how you see the field in itself changing. 126 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,240 Okay, that's a big question. 127 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,240 So, remind me halfway through if I forget. 128 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,400 So, I got into food studies. 129 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,280 Mainly by way of Italy. 130 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:38,720 After I got my B.A. 131 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:44,720 at Stanford in 1970, I was trying to decide, what do I do now? 132 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,840 And I ended up going back to Italy with a friend of mine and just living. 133 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,880 I had first gone to Italy as a student in 1968, 134 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,880 as part of Stanford's study abroad program. 135 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,560 So, when I graduated in 1970, I went back to 136 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,600 Italy, lived there for about three years. 137 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:07,960 And realized that if I wanted 138 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,840 to pursue a career, I really had to do it in my own country. 139 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,960 So, I became fascinated with 140 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:21,000 Sardinia, the island of Sardinia, which at that time in the 70s 141 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:27,120 was quite backward or traditional or however you want to put it. 142 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,560 But it wasn't really. 143 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,640 It hadn't really launched into the modern world. 144 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,720 So it was quite fascinating to, 145 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,720 a young American to sort of look at this 146 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:42,880 quite traditional society 147 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,880 and figure out what was going on. 148 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,960 And of course, food was a big part of it. 149 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,280 What I found, I started grad school 150 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,280 in January of 1974 151 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,400 at the University of Massachusetts Amherst. 152 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,240 And what I found is that I wanted to study 153 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,240 Italy and Sardinia in particular. 154 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,440 And I kept thinking, what am I going to study? 155 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:09,840 What am I going to study? 156 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:14,120 And I realized food is what people talked about all the time. 157 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,760 It was a central part of social life. 158 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,760 So, it made perfect sense to study food. 159 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,600 Furthermore, in the 70s, feminism 160 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,560 was starting to come into anthropology in a big way, 161 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:33,760 and feminism kind of directed scholars to look at the experiences of women 162 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,760 and put them in the center of our research. 163 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,440 Well, food was a perfect way to do that because so much of women's 164 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,520 activity in so many societies focused on food. 165 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,600 So, it was sort of part of a burgeoning feminism 166 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,600 and a study of women in anthropology. 167 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,280 The study of Italy, which centered food. 168 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:02,000 And then, of course, my own personal interest and proclivities. 169 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,360 I've always been someone who loves food, who loves to eat, 170 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:12,280 and who enjoys socializing around food and giving food to others. 171 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,640 So the personal, the feminist, 172 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,720 and the research site all came together to study food. 173 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:25,080 And what I did at first, I wrote my dissertation prospectus 174 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:30,480 in 1978, and I remember thinking, okay, I've read everything. 175 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,800 Now, I can go out and do my own research. 176 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,600 Well, of course, nobody could ever read everything today in 177 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,880 the social sciences alone, not to mention 178 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,240 in all of scholarship on food studies. 179 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,920 So, I had one advantage in starting at the beginning, 180 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:52,720 because there wasn't as much research as there later came to be. 181 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,160 What I found when I started 182 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,760 on food is two kind of things. 183 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,840 One is that the study of food 184 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,320 was generally trivialized in academe and considered 185 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,480 kind of, oh, not really serious 186 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,240 and not really important because everybody knows about food. 187 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,480 And therefore it was kind of trivialized. 188 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:22,000 But at the same time, the fact that everybody knows about food 189 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,960 makes it a wonderful bridge for communicating, for example, 190 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,840 with students, because they always had something to start 191 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,960 with and to build on in terms of theories or concepts 192 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:39,000 or just the centrality of food in people's lives. 193 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:45,480 And food also was, although trivialized 194 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:50,120 in the discipline of anthropology and in, in academe in general. 195 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:55,160 At UMass, where I was, there were two scholars 196 00:11:55,160 --> 00:12:00,400 who were even in there in the 70s teaching food and culture, 197 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,880 and one of them was George Armelagos, 198 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:08,800 who wrote a very important book called, Consuming Passions 199 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,160 with Peter Farb in 1980. 200 00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:16,120 And the other scholar was Sylvia Forman, 201 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,480 who was a cultural anthropologist and who was on my dissertation committee. 202 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,640 Our Armelagos was a biocultural anthropologist. 203 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,120 So, having the two of them that UMass already teaching, already 204 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:34,760 publishing, made food studies a legitimate topic at UMass and kind of 205 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,760 swept open the doors 206 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,760 for me to do that as my dissertation. 207 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,840 So in 1981, I completed 208 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,840 my dissertation, which was called, 209 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,760 Food, Culture and Political Economy: 210 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:56,240 Changing Lifestyles in the Sardinian Town of Boza. 211 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,520 And I think that gives a sense of what this sort of first stage 212 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:05,160 of the research was, which was focusing on political economy. 213 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:10,960 Then, as I sort of got more and more into the research, my 214 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,600 my field of interest expanded 215 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,200 and began to cover a bunch of different topics, 216 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,160 including, as you said, food and the body, 217 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,960 women's roles around food, 218 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,960 female power around food, 219 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,520 human relationships in the family. 220 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:40,360 And then later 221 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:45,120 in my career, I came to focus more on food in the public sphere 222 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,640 and particularly food activism. 223 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,760 Kind of late in the teens. 224 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,040 But the whole trajectory, I think, exemplifies 225 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,800 both how central food is 226 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,080 and how many spokes kind of go out from that wheel with food 227 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,480 at the center to touch so many issues of 228 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,680 meaning and power and identity. 229 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,400 And so that's kind of been at the center of my work all along. 230 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,800 Now, you asked me how things are are evolving today 231 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,160 or shall I continue with that? 232 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:25,760 Let me let me reframe it. 233 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,760 Just so we can give, 234 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:30,760 sort of a, 235 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,760 a shelf definition, 236 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,760 thinking about your trajectory. 237 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,560 For people who will listen to this in the future, 238 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,560 how would you say that 239 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,440 how would you just simply define the concept of food studies 240 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,240 as a as a field of research? 241 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:51,480 If you can sort of 242 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,960 frame that in a couple sentences or more than a couple sentences, but, but 243 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,440 what I hear you in and when you tell us, 244 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,440 so you've gone from looking at the body, looking at 245 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,320 gender, looking at 246 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,240 family power dynamics 247 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,240 from the quote unquote private to the more public. 248 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,560 Except that I would suggest that food has always been in both. 249 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,000 Right? Yeah. Food is always in both. 250 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,840 It challenges this notion of the private 251 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,840 versus public sphere and how people negotiate that. 252 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,120 But this is not about how I define food studies. 253 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,520 It's about how you define it. 254 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:32,200 So, if you can just talk a little bit about it, about how you, when you started 255 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:36,440 your career, how would you feel that you would have defined for studies then? 256 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,760 But after 20, how many years of you in the career? More than that 257 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,760 40. After 40 years of being in the career? 258 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,120 And moving to different stages of how you engage in the area? 259 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:49,880 Also being the editor of a very, 260 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,840 very influential book in a field which is, 261 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,840 the Food and and Culture Reader. 262 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,080 So, I want to talk a little bit about some of the books that you work on. 263 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,280 So, in 40 years of doing food 264 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:05,440 research, 265 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,520 if you were to define for future generations to look at this video, 266 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,560 how is food that is define or how is it changing? 267 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:15,640 How would you describe that? 268 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,680 Well, I would define food studies 269 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:23,400 as the interdisciplinary study of foodways, which are the beliefs 270 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:28,360 and behaviors surrounding the production, distribution, and consumption of food. 271 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,240 So beliefs and behaviors kind of get at the material 272 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,240 and the ideological aspects of food, 273 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,320 both of which are fundamentally important. 274 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,880 And even if we're not focusing on both, there's sort of 275 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,840 have to be somewhere in the in the picture. 276 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:52,000 And then production, distribution and consumption of food kind of covers 277 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:57,360 all aspects in the process of making food, 278 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,800 eating food, and sharing food. 279 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,480 So, I think that that definition for me 280 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,840 kind of still holds interdisciplinary. 281 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,440 And it's looking at food in all of its aspects. 282 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,120 I think that answers your question. 283 00:17:16,120 --> 00:17:18,480 Was there more to it? 284 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,480 No, no, I think, you know, 285 00:17:22,360 --> 00:17:24,440 the answer to the question is how do you define it? 286 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:25,320 That's how you define it. 287 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,640 And I do agree that that that I think that interdisciplinarity works. 288 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,640 The idea of cultures and beliefs. 289 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:38,280 I think the layers of complication that enter when, 290 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,680 when we think about, well, which cultures are we talking about, which beliefs 291 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,680 we talking about, how are they're affected in terms of issues of nationality, 292 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,400 how are they affected in terms of issues of socioeconomics? 293 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:49,040 Right? 294 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,120 How they affect that in terms of issues of, of I mean, 295 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,640 within that bigger picture, there are multiple kinds of different, 296 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,040 layers of complexity that I would imagine that depending on who 297 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,480 the scholar is and what their interests are, they're going to focus on that. 298 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:07,360 I do want to 299 00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:11,400 ask you another, more general question still about food science before we move to 300 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,320 to other questions, more in relationship to the association, 301 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,880 I personally have been interested a fascinated 302 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,880 with looking at the trajectory of your your research. 303 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,200 Especially, you know, I, I read and I honor 304 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,200 and I have it in my bookshelf, a copy of your first book. 305 00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:34,120 And I've read a number of other books, and, and your work has been influential 306 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:37,120 in my work a lot, 307 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,960 but this shift that you mentioned about going from the private 308 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,240 sphere, sort of kind of and of course, we already said 309 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:45,680 private is never really private. 310 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,080 It's always connected to the public. 311 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,840 But you have made a more 312 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,000 your most recent works. 313 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:54,320 Edited works. You've 314 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,280 made a more concerted effort 315 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,400 to gather stories, from the from people in the public sphere. 316 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,800 So, if we can talk about sort of that 317 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:07,800 changes too. 318 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:08,760 You know 319 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,400 when you speak to somebody about food and you speak speaking in the 320 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:12,520 sphere of the house, 321 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,520 what kinds of stories, what kind of themes come out at home 322 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,040 and also what kinds of stories or things are coming out when you speak 323 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,040 to somebody in the public sphere, like somebody who owns a restaurant, 324 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,840 versus somebody who is cooking for the family. 325 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,480 The other thing that I would like us for you to tell us, because I think is 326 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,480 really, really wonderful, is the methodology that you use, 327 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,200 to gather together food stories. 328 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,960 So, can we talk a little bit more about the concept of food stories 329 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,240 in those different fields that you've done your research? 330 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:42,440 Sure. 331 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,440 Why don't we start with that? 332 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,080 So, the methodology I came up with 333 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,080 is called Food Centered Life Histories. 334 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,080 And what they consist of are basically asking people 335 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,560 about everything to do with food and their lives. 336 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,000 While recording the interviews. 337 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:06,680 And I started with this in my research in Florence, 338 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,200 where I was working with 23 members 339 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:16,040 of an extended family, of a former partner of mine, a boyfriend, 340 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,160 and it was all of his living relatives that I interviewed. 341 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,520 And what emerged was sort of, 342 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,520 first of all, the intense, 343 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,360 richness of Italians 344 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:34,640 in general and Florentines in particular, surrounding both 345 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,800 their activities involved with food, but also their memories. 346 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,520 And so I have 347 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:47,440 I got some wonderful memories of meals in childhood, 348 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,920 which revealed kind of intense family dynamics, 349 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,080 memories of what people actually 350 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:01,400 ate, of scarcity and hunger, particularly during World War II, 351 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,440 which some of my older informants remembered 352 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,440 quite vividly. 353 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,360 And memories 354 00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:13,360 of meals, of tastes, 355 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,800 of the richness of those memories 356 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,800 in terms of human relationships. 357 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,920 And what I found was, after I did the research in Florence, 358 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:31,800 I came to the San Luis Valley of Colorado, to a small town called Antonito, 359 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:37,400 where I'm speaking to you from today, where I use the same method, 360 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,520 but people's memories and their food ways were very, very different. 361 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,200 So, whereas Florence was a temperate zone 362 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,200 with fresh food all year round grown in 363 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,080 very close proximity to the city, 364 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,680 Antonito, as a very cold and dry climate. 365 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:01,520 It's very hard to grow food at any time of the year, particularly 366 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,400 it's impossible for several months of the year because it's too cold. 367 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,920 And so people had different kinds of memories. 368 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:15,800 They didn't have the the rich diversity of foods to sort of call upon. 369 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,080 Their, their diet was much more, 370 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,720 standardized around the year. 371 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,040 Beans, potatoes, chili and meat. 372 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:27,760 Whereas the Florentine diet 373 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,200 was, was rich with an abundance of vegetables. 374 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,800 So, I think that gets to your comment earlier 375 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,720 about cultural diversity in terms of food ways. 376 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,880 And we know that that no culture ever uses 377 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,880 all the potential foods in their environment. 378 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,840 They always pick and choose, but some cultures and peoples 379 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,160 have a lot more to choose from than others. 380 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,040 So, the methodology of food centered life 381 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:02,440 histories proved to be very rich in terms of getting at people's 382 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,760 personal pictures, of their experiences of being human. 383 00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:10,400 Later on, when I did interviews 384 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,440 with food activists in Sardinia, 385 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,600 the the interviews were more focused on their food activism. 386 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,320 So, they weren't so holistically shaped to sort of 387 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,480 tell me everything you know about food. 388 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:29,640 What was the first 389 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,640 half of your question before we got to that? 390 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,040 I don't remember? 391 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:39,720 I know something about how the definition has changed or 392 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,720 For you going from from the the, 393 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,640 more and the word that you use right now, for instance, 394 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,720 the more holistic approach with your early work. 395 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:50,560 And here 396 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,560 I'm thinking in terms of oral histories, you know, like an oral history that, that 397 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,320 that captures almost the entire life story of somebody who tries to write versus, 398 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,320 a target of oral history, so to speak, in which you ask 399 00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:06,840 very specific kinds of subject matter, which is what the activism would be. 400 00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:11,000 So, so there's a different focus on what the story the recording is doing. 401 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,480 So, my my question really was, if you noticed 402 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,920 and you sort of talked about it a little bit already, 403 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,680 but if you can maybe say a few more sentences. 404 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,840 When you started working more with asking people, 405 00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:27,160 like restaurant owners or people that were involved in the, in the slow 406 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,200 food movement because I know that you were involved in this, right? 407 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,440 Gathering stories. 408 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,280 How the the memories 409 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,280 or the conversations 410 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:41,760 were noticeable 411 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:42,880 were they noticeably different 412 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,880 than the stories that you were gathering early on in your career? 413 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,200 Yeah, they were noticeably different 414 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,200 the later interviews, mainly because I was much more, 415 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,640 as you say, narrow and specific in the kinds of things 416 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,680 I was trying to learn about, which, 417 00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:05,640 you know, it might have been better to continue with the holistic picture 418 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,360 because people's attitudes towards food are shaped 419 00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:12,360 by so many experiences 420 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,360 of eating in the family, and how positive or negative 421 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:21,040 an experience that is of their own experience of taste 422 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,520 and positive tastes and negative tastes and so forth. 423 00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:28,760 But the later interviews, I think, had the benefit 424 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:33,080 that the earlier ones had of recording people's words. 425 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:38,680 And that's been really important in my research, because I really want 426 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:43,760 to have people's insider or what we call in anthropology, emic, 427 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,480 perspectives on things. 428 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,840 Because I think it's so interesting. 429 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,200 And also, we humans tend to assume 430 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,080 that everybody thinks the way we do and they don't. 431 00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,920 Everybody has their own 432 00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:04,760 very diverse perspective on life and on food in particular. 433 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,560 So, I mean, we see that, in fact, by the evolution 434 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:14,400 of the field of food studies, where we start with, 435 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,800 family, gender 436 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,520 and then move to activism, to concerns 437 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,520 about the climate, to, 438 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,400 you know, all kinds of contemporary issues, 439 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,440 the role of social media in food. 440 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,040 You know, that wasn't even a thing when I started in the field. 441 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:41,560 So, the ways that food is communicated about and its use to communicate 442 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,560 have evolved, but it's still right there 443 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,560 in the center of our lives. 444 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:49,240 Thank you. 445 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,440 Thank you for that. 446 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,120 I would like to shift, focus a little bit and focus a little more 447 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,400 on the organization and the, you know, Association for the Study of Food and Society. 448 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,240 We are celebrating 40th its 40th anniversary. 449 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,640 You know, we hope that somebody. 450 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,040 Because it probably won't be us celebrate the next 40 451 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:12,840 anniversary. 452 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,560 You know, 453 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,040 so part of what I want to acknowledge shift is let's talk about your, 454 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:23,240 presence or your involvement, in terms of of the organization. 455 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,520 And by that, I mean, like, when was the first time you won? 456 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,200 And what attracted you to it? 457 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,520 I know for a fact that you for many years have been going every year. 458 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,520 So, what kept you going to this organization? 459 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,440 How do you see this particular organization, 460 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,880 perhaps different, than some of the other 461 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,880 organizations that that as professional anthropologists you've attended? 462 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,320 So let's begin by, you know, when if you remember, 463 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,040 when was the first year that you went to this organization and then sort of 464 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,080 kind of walks us through through your, your, your presence in that organization. 465 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,160 So, I think the first conference I went to was in Silver Spring, Maryland, 466 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,880 and I'm not sure what year that was. 467 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:11,000 I'm assuming it was the late 80s, soon after the founding of ASFS, 468 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,680 the reason I wanted to join, 469 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,200 of course, was to find a community of scholars. 470 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:23,440 That community didn't really exist in anthropology. 471 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,120 We had the Council on Nutritional Anthropology 472 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,640 that was founded in 1974. 473 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,360 But for the first 20 years or so of its existence, 474 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:40,480 it was much more focused on the biological nutritional side of anthropology 475 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,680 and food than on the food side or the food and culture side. 476 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,880 So, although I was part of the CNA or the Council on Nutritional Anthropology, 477 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,640 I didn't feel like it was a particularly, 478 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,080 welcoming or of like minded home. 479 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,680 So the ASFS was focused more on the cultural, 480 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,480 social side of food ways, and that was good. 481 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,880 What I found at the beginning, it was heavily, 482 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,680 run by sociologists. 483 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:20,560 So, Bill Whit and Alex McIntosh, Warren Belasco, no, Warren's a historian. 484 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:21,120 Sorry. 485 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:23,520 But a lot of the 486 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,560 people at the beginning were were sociologists, 487 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,560 and there weren't very many anthropologists. 488 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:35,520 So, again, I was like, I was part of it, but it wasn't the most compatible home 489 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,520 because of the lack of other anthropologists. 490 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:43,440 However, I love the conferences, and I always have. 491 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,760 I think the ASFS conferences are the best 492 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,760 of any professional organization I've been to. 493 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,200 For the size, 494 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,040 it tends to be a fairly small meeting of a few hundred people. 495 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,840 So it's not the zoo, that the anthropology conferences. 496 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,040 The National Anthropology Conference says, you know, 5000 497 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,040 anthropologists, and it's really not, 498 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,880 lovey dovies touchy feely kind of atmosphere. 499 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,280 But I think ASFS has always been real friendly, 500 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,400 small, compatible, lots of great people. 501 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,400 And so that has kept me coming back. 502 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:31,080 Also, the interdisciplinary nature of it, I think it's always been appealing. 503 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,560 I think I'm a kind of more of a jack of all trades type of thinker 504 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,400 than a narrow thinker. 505 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:43,240 So, I think the interdisciplinary thing was compatible with my own interests. 506 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:50,400 I, I know I went to that Silver Spring, 507 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:55,520 Maryland meeting, and I'm hopeful that you guys in your work on the history 508 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,000 could eventually tell me what year that was. 509 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,280 And I've always come back off and on, 510 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,560 for all the reasons I just described. 511 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,480 What else did you want me to address? 512 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:16,720 The other things, 513 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,680 are there other sort of memorable? 514 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,680 Well, you already talk about some of the interdisciplinarity and the friendliness. 515 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,720 What about the the what do you say about, 516 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,600 what are you feelings in terms of the the tools, for instance, 517 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,960 the audience that that it organizes 518 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,920 around food because as we said a minute ago, with, with your research, 519 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,880 it was with the private space and the in the public space. 520 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,400 Well, the production, distribution and consumption of food 521 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,560 does not happen in the world of academics and not only academics. 522 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,480 I'm like thinking about this and engaged in this. 523 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,120 I mean, the actual practitioners are always outside the academy, right? 524 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,240 And this organization has tried, 525 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,840 it seems to me for the years that I've been going 526 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:04,120 tries, has a concerted effort to integrate those two venues 527 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,120 or work over this pillars of food studies really happen. 528 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,560 Maybe for us academics, is the study part of it? 529 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,040 And there's the other practitioner part of it. 530 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,160 So are there any any what what are your thoughts 531 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,160 on on the types of, 532 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:25,640 food people. 533 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:26,320 I don't know how to say it 534 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,320 that this organization tries to bring together. 535 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:31,240 So, that's one question. 536 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,960 The other question is your role as a mentor. 537 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,080 Because I started I learned about this organization through you. 538 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,160 And we met in a different organization, the, the Popular Culture 539 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,880 Yeah. Organization in, in Albuquerque. 540 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,560 But it was through our, meeting that 541 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,720 I was aware that I became aware of of ASFS. 542 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,000 And then I started coming. 543 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,320 And I know that I'm not the only at that 544 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,480 moment, early, early in my career, but I know that you've had, 545 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,800 you play a role in other people's earliest careers 546 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,320 in terms of bringing them to the organization. 547 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,720 So, can we talk a little bit about the almost role of mentoring 548 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,280 and bringing people into the organization? 549 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,440 And also the like I said, the efforts of the organization to 550 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,880 to bring food practitioners into the organization. 551 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,080 Yeah. 552 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,800 I think it's always tricky for an academic organization 553 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:28,040 to bring practitioners in because our heads may be in different spaces. 554 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,240 But of course we do study practitioners, so we should 555 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,600 and we are hopefully able to relate to them. 556 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:43,320 And I think that the ASFS activities that are always organized along with the, 557 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:49,320 the sort of more traditional conference paper type of activities, are one way that 558 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,760 the organization has quite successfully brought academics 559 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,760 to food workers. 560 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,400 I don't know if it's brought food workers to academics 561 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,440 in quite the same way, but at least it is 562 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:05,800 enabled us to 563 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,880 participate in some really fascinating experiences 564 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,840 and provide, I think, a venue for connection 565 00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:19,880 between the scholars as well as between the scholars and the practitioners. 566 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,360 So, I remember, one meeting 567 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,280 might have been Oregon, years ago. 568 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,080 I know we're meeting in Oregon again 569 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,400 this spring, but this was years ago, I think it was Oregon 570 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,720 did a farmers market visit, 571 00:34:34,720 --> 00:34:37,720 and that's where I met Rachel Black, 572 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,280 who became a very good friend and mentee 573 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,400 and colleague over the years. 574 00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:47,440 It also, I think 575 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:53,400 visiting a farmers market through the conference planted a seed that later 576 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,040 developed into the study of food activism, 577 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,040 of which farmers markets are one part. 578 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:07,000 So I think it's it's really great that ASFS 579 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:12,920 does these visits and organizes hands on activities. 580 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,720 I think it's really fun and it's also good for us. 581 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,760 Now, as far as the mentoring 582 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:25,120 goes, it's always been an interest of mine to bring along 583 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,400 junior scholars, particularly women, 584 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,480 who of course, when I got started in the field, 585 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,000 were still struggling for equal representation. 586 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,000 And, you know, 587 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,600 I remember meeting you at that popular culture conference. 588 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,600 I remember you had on a dress. 589 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,240 I don't know if you remember that. 590 00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:53,240 And hearing about your work. 591 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,560 And the charlas and I thought, wow, this is really cool. 592 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:03,280 So, it was a natural to encourage you to submit to Food and Foodways 593 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,840 and to encourage you to join in with the other food scholars, 594 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,600 and, of course, you've made a great contribution to the field. 595 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:12,120 And, as a result. 596 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,080 So, I was right. 597 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,520 And, I remember another conference 598 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,440 where I ended up, having dinner with Psyche Williams-Forson 599 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,760 and we had known each other, but we weren't really good friends. 600 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,800 But on this particular occasion, both of us were too tired 601 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,120 to go to the fancy banquet that they always have. 602 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:36,880 And so we went out to dinner. 603 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:42,760 Just the two of us got to know each other, and also formulated a collaboration 604 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:48,480 that resulted in our book Taking Food Public, which is a edited book. 605 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:50,320 So I think that, 606 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:52,840 the ASFS 607 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,440 ASFS meetings have been a wonderful 608 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,400 arena for networking and mentoring 609 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,440 other junior scholars to come to the field 610 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,960 to submit their work to journals 611 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,880 and meet other people. 612 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,880 And it's just always been a positive for me. 613 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:16,960 Thank. Thank you for that. 614 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,560 And I can think of a number other other young scholars that you have helped 615 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,000 mentor and, you know, kind of guide think Marissa 616 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,320 Ramona, you know, 617 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,320 there's just so many people, 618 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,440 this brings me to another question and sort of kind of moving. 619 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,120 I mean, the way we frame it for this interview 620 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,120 is, is sort of the organization 621 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,440 as a 21st century, scholarly project. 622 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,960 And one of the questions, one of the ideas that we are wondering is 623 00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:51,560 what role should, do you think that the research 624 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,480 should take in terms of the production of scholarship, 625 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,760 in terms of the monograph, in terms of the journals, 626 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,760 but also in terms of sort of, more 627 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,360 digital humanities projects, for instance, 628 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,720 more open source, 629 00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:12,720 public facing kind of scholarship. 630 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,160 Do you, do you think that the organizations should be 631 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:20,200 or could be a place in with different formats of, of, 632 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,040 sharing food scholarship, 633 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,400 that there should be a sort of kind of a central aspect of this organization, 634 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,440 or maybe already is, and I just don't necessarily see it. 635 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,160 What is your perspective on that? 636 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,160 If I, if I articulated my question correctly? 637 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:37,840 Yeah. 638 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:39,680 I'm not totally sure. 639 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:45,080 I mean, I think the journal Food, Culture and Society does a great job. 640 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:49,520 And, we should definitely continue supporting 641 00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:55,320 the publication of the journal, particularly as long as publications 642 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,920 have the important role that they have always had in academe. 643 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,320 Who knows if that'll continue? 644 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,920 I also enjoy the ASFS 645 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,680 newsletter as a kind of information 646 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,680 dissemination vehicle. 647 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,720 So it's like, oh, it's cool to know what the new books are, 648 00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:20,040 what the new dissertations, who's doing what on the board and so forth. 649 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:25,440 Beyond that, I'm not really maybe the expert in things 650 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,160 like digital humanities. 651 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,800 That's something you can talk about. 652 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,200 But again, it does 653 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,520 Do we need the association to sponsor this 654 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,720 these new methods, these new forms, 655 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,120 or is it just coming out of individuals? 656 00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:43,920 I'm just not sure. 657 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,640 And I think it's really a question for the ASFS board to think about 658 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,400 where you get a bunch of people in a room to, to debate these things, 659 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,400 bringing different perspectives? 660 00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:01,680 You know, podcasts, for example, should we be doing podcasts? 661 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,400 I'm just not sure because I'm old school, 662 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:06,960 I'm in the 663 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,960 21st century, but I'm not really a leader. 664 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:12,240 It's fair enough. 665 00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:14,440 Fair enough. 666 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,480 And I guess the reason why we were asking the question, 667 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,080 I think, you know, the question is as an association, 668 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,280 as a recognized association, like the major association that we have 669 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:27,160 on food studies, in this country is younger scholars. 670 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,520 Yeah, yeah, a lot younger than than most of us. 671 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,440 Because I feel pretty much I mean, even though I'm working with 672 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,440 digital humanities projects, public facing scholarship, 673 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,800 I recognize that I'm sort of kind of a dinosaur, 674 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,400 in the area, believe it or not. 675 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,960 You know, I'm just learning, I'm 676 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,680 willing to take the challenge and learn as I go, as I go with the projects. 677 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,840 I speak to younger scholars, and they mentioned this and that in that, 678 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,040 and I'm like, I have no idea what you're talking about, 679 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,360 even though I'm engaged to some degree. Right. 680 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,400 But I think part of the question that we're having is, 681 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:06,760 is whether this organization, 682 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,400 beyond the traditional journal that we support 683 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,800 and that we should consider support, whether this is a space 684 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,800 to support, 685 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,040 other, other means of production. 686 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,200 You mentioned a podcast, maybe, maybe even should a podcast be part of it 687 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,360 to give space to to younger scholarship. 688 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,600 And the other concern that I also have, and I was wondering if that association 689 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,280 can help, 690 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,520 is one of the challenges that young scholars would have right now, 691 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,920 it seems to me, with digital humanities projects, for instance, 692 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,000 is that we don't know how to evaluate them. 693 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:44,840 We don't know what what 694 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,440 not that not to say that they don't have merit, but what does 695 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,480 the merit criteria looks like for something that is so different? 696 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,080 And I think maybe that's where the challenge might be. 697 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,600 And, and I think I agree with you that if the organization 698 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,600 wants to move forward with this, it might be something that the board, 699 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,200 executive board, the collective board 700 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,200 can, can, can discuss that. 701 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,360 The other question that I have is 702 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,000 in terms of organization, 703 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,800 Do you see this space 704 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,240 or what are your thoughts on the space 705 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:27,240 as a space that is, 706 00:42:27,720 --> 00:42:30,280 sort of 707 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,280 open to, 708 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,600 early on when we were talking specifically about food studies, 709 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,320 you know, we talk about 710 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,920 we all have a different relationship to food depending on where we come 711 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:41,680 from, right? 712 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,800 Depending on our culture, depending on our classes, depending on our ethnicity, 713 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,360 in the in the many years that you have 714 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,560 come to the organization on and off for many years, 715 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,520 do you see that diversity 716 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,520 that the, the, the changes or not, 717 00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,560 the multiplicity of different kinds of cultural perspectives, 718 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,560 being represented in the programs, 719 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,160 for instance? 720 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,160 So, so, you know, basically the question is, what do you 721 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,560 what are your thoughts in how the organization, as an organization 722 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,720 makes an effort to, to bring to the forefront, 723 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,520 or maybe it's not making an effort to bring to the forefront, 724 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,800 a broader range of, of cultural perspectives about food, 725 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,640 in two ways from those of us doing the scholarship, 726 00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:36,720 but also the people that are presented in the scholarship. 727 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:38,440 Right. 728 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:43,680 Well, I have seen some efforts by, ASFS to encourage diversity. 729 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,480 The Mellon Grant, I think was one part of it. 730 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:52,320 And efforts to sort of on a personal level to bring people 731 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:58,360 and I think maybe we need more institutionalized projects like that, 732 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:03,200 as we now have a joint meeting with the Ag and Human Values people, 733 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,960 maybe we could reach out to other groups as well. 734 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,920 I don't know necessarily what they would be. 735 00:44:13,240 --> 00:44:17,440 But other groups that are looking at inter-ethnic relations 736 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:22,240 or ethnic approaches to food studies, scholars who are looking at that, 737 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,280 I think we're not as diverse 738 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,280 as we could be and as we should be. 739 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,480 We're not, reaching out as far as we could. 740 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:36,760 But I think my feeling is that the organization is welcoming towards 741 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:38,000 diversity. 742 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,560 It's just a question of materializing that welcomed. 743 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,200 I did also want to say back to the previous question 744 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,600 about how ASFS might foster 745 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,800 new, new forms of communication. 746 00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:57,120 One thing it could do would be to do some training sessions, 747 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,920 have somebody like you talk to others who are interested 748 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,920 in doing, 749 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,520 digital humanities or putting interviews up on the web 750 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,880 or all the cool things that your El Paso Voices project does. 751 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,440 Might be nice to have some training sessions to teach others to do that. 752 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,520 Tapping into the expertise that we already have. 753 00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:27,080 And you also mentioned the difficulty 754 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:32,280 of assessing these new forms of scholarship like digital media. 755 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,440 And I'm sure you said your own personal experience with that. 756 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,200 And it's the same issue that food studies 757 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,200 has run into an, a different way, 758 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,880 assessing interdisciplinary contributions, 759 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,080 because, of course, the journals that people submit to 760 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,120 if they're an historian are one set of journals, 761 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:57,160 if they do food studies or another said their peers may not understand, 762 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:01,360 well, how do we evaluate your publication and food and foodways? 763 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,760 It's not the American Historical Review or whatever. 764 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:10,280 So I think that has been an issue for interdisciplinary programs 765 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,520 like food studies. 766 00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,760 That extends as well into the whole university hierarchy. 767 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:21,200 You know, how do we evaluate this person who says she's an anthropologist, 768 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,200 but she's publishing in Food and Foodways? 769 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:30,760 So, I think that is partly a phenomenon that has to do with academe's kind of 770 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:33,760 fossilization. 771 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,760 It's, you know, rigid structures 772 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,800 of departments and disciplines and schools, 773 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,920 that I think interdisciplinary programs challenge, 774 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,920 but they haven't managed to overcome. 775 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,720 And, and that raises the question 776 00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:53,400 in terms of food studies as a field. 777 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,680 I mean, should there be more master's program or 778 00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,680 PhD programs in food studies as a field? 779 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,680 Because what you think of you, I mean, your field is anthropology, right? 780 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,000 My field is literature. 781 00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,400 We I've done a lot of interdisciplinary work, 782 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,400 but it's still in literature. 783 00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:15,720 And maybe one of the potential 784 00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,760 answers, to the question about merit 785 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,600 and evaluation of, of new projects and interdisciplinary projects, 786 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,040 just like you said, in terms of the organization taking a lead 787 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:31,840 is not only to have workshops, but to, to, to, to to come up with, for, with, with, 788 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:33,600 rubrics 789 00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,800 for discursive validations and presented us as an a, 790 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:41,800 as a rubric that the association sort of fosters or supports. 791 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,920 You know, MLA has done certain things for, for digital humanities. 792 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,240 I always think that we shouldn't just be waiting for somebody else 793 00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:50,200 to tell us the rubric, 794 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,200 but we should take a leadership and figure out how to create it ourselves 795 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,560 and foster younger scholars. 796 00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,040 So, yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of work to be done, 797 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:01,240 but but I think we 798 00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:04,240 echoing the same thing that maybe that organization can be a place 799 00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:08,800 where this task can take place in the future, hopefully 800 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:10,560 in the near future. 801 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,800 Another question that that I, that I have, 802 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,800 for you is. 803 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:17,640 What we 804 00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,800 as an organization, you know, we encourage and we 805 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,600 and we have people from other countries come over and and support. 806 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:30,720 But do you see ASFS as is you see it mostly as a national organization. 807 00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:32,320 And if so, what does that mean? 808 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,480 Or is it or it should be in an international organization. 809 00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:37,160 And if so, what does that mean? 810 00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:38,560 How does that change the organization? 811 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:40,480 How do we think about an 812 00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,480 organization versus as a national or international organization? 813 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,200 And that's a good question, because I think as ASFS 814 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:53,000 is a pretty North American based organization, 815 00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,800 and the conferences are heavily North 816 00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:00,560 American based, I think there is interest 817 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,360 from at least from Europe, where I have contacts, 818 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,480 and Mexico maybe also as well. 819 00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,920 But it hasn't become institutionalized. 820 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:17,000 So, I will remind my, my friends and coeditors 821 00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:21,600 people like Valeria Siniscalchi a senior scholar of the coldest altitude, 822 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,640 in Marseilles, and Susanne Højlund 823 00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,640 of Aarhus University in Denmark. 824 00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:29,840 They're collaborators with me. 825 00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,120 I've encouraged them to come to the meetings, but 826 00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:37,320 it's not really on their mental calendar and their mental map. 827 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:42,680 So, by the time June rolls around, it's like, oh no, I'm not going. 828 00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,440 So I think we could do more to extend our reach. 829 00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,240 And one of the ways would be to 830 00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:52,920 maybe set up some kind of semi-formal arrangement 831 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:58,280 with the EASA, which is the European 832 00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:03,360 Anthropology of Food Group, and they have a food subgroup 833 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,800 in EASA, now they're only anthropologists 834 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,000 so that's somewhat limited. 835 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,280 There's also the ISGSS, 836 00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:16,480 which is the International Union of Gastronomic 837 00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,480 Sciences and Studies, 838 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,360 and that is organized out of the University 839 00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,240 of Gastronomic Sciences in Italy, 840 00:50:25,240 --> 00:50:28,960 but it is truly an international organization with people 841 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,000 from all over the world. 842 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:36,520 So, I think if we had some kind of semi-formal collaboration 843 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,640 with them or interaction or and 844 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,680 just even sharing mailing lists 845 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:47,120 would do a lot towards internationalizing our group. 846 00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:52,480 And I think it's important, especially recently, 847 00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:58,240 with how the world looks and how our place as North Americans looks in that world. 848 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,320 It would be in our interest to have people on the ground 849 00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,120 countering whatever impressions 850 00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,120 our government is making at the moment. 851 00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:13,440 I couldn't agree with you more. 852 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,000 As when we begin to wrap up our interview 853 00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:19,600 first of all, 854 00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:21,240 set up to the camera. 855 00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:22,480 There we go. 856 00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:23,320 There you go. 857 00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,280 As we as we close our interview here, I have a couple sort of, 858 00:51:28,720 --> 00:51:30,800 questions for almost the future. 859 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,880 And one of them is, what are your hopes for food studies 860 00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,880 in the next fourty years? 861 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:40,040 What are your hopes for the organization in the next 40 years? 862 00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:46,360 And what haven't we talked about today that you would also like to to comment on? 863 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,400 Maybe there's another topic that we haven't quite quite said, something 864 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,400 that you would like to share specifically for the organization? 865 00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:54,040 Future members of the organization. 866 00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:58,240 Okay. 867 00:51:58,240 --> 00:52:01,800 Well, I'm going to sound like a dinosaur, 868 00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:05,680 but I'm hoping for more diversity, equity, and inclusion 869 00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,040 in our field. 870 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,880 Which is not a popular thing to say at the moment. 871 00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,440 Surprisingly. 872 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:20,280 But I think opening it up both intellectually 873 00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:24,160 in terms of our membership and in terms of the questions 874 00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:28,840 we we investigate and the perspectives from which we investigate them, 875 00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:33,520 the more diversity and equity and inclusion we have, the better. 876 00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:39,760 I would like to see the organization maintain food sovereignty as a 877 00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,800 as a major organizing goal, 878 00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:47,200 food sovereignty for all people all over the world, 879 00:52:47,240 --> 00:52:52,640 because I think that's so fundamental to diversity, equity and inclusion. 880 00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,840 Food sovereignty is is really basic. 881 00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,320 I think that the organization 882 00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:05,560 can continue to sort of keep up with contemporary issues 883 00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:09,600 by paying attention to social media 884 00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,120 and the role of the media. 885 00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,160 I would like to see the organization 886 00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:20,080 engage with the question of what is food? 887 00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,280 You know, we all have our ideas, 888 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:28,680 but there going to be new ideas about what food actually is. 889 00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:32,200 You know, the famous meal in a pill that Warren 890 00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,480 Belasco wrote about years ago. 891 00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:40,160 Entomophagy, bug, bug eating, eating insects. 892 00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:44,680 Right now, a lot of people do not think insects are food, 893 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:49,920 but they may someday be food and be considered delicious food. 894 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,560 Likewise, algae and fungi and, 895 00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:58,360 you know, things that grow under adverse growing conditions 896 00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:02,320 or without a lot of manipulation of the environment 897 00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:06,280 that may be essential to keeping us all 898 00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:09,280 going, keeping us alive. 899 00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:14,480 I think that issues of taste are going to continue to be important, 900 00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:18,680 because that's so much related to the pleasurable aspects of food. 901 00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:21,280 And we don't want to forget those, 902 00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:23,920 access 903 00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:27,200 food access is going to be continue to be critical. 904 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,000 I was just saw a headline in the paper today about, 905 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:36,280 you know, how the latest economic chaos is going to affect the food supply. 906 00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:40,480 We already see people all over the world suffering hunger 907 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,800 because of the dismantling of USAID. 908 00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:48,400 So, these are issues that we must continue to think about 909 00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:52,240 and work to remedy. 910 00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:57,360 That's wonderful. 911 00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,360 Is there anything else, or? 912 00:55:01,720 --> 00:55:04,720 anything else I should mention? 913 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:06,840 I I'll probably think of things 914 00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:10,480 after we sign off, but I think that sounds good for now. 915 00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,920 If you've got what you need, 916 00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:13,600 I think so. 917 00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,600 So, therefore, well, thank you for everything. 918 00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:21,000 On behalf of the ASFS 40 committee, and ASFS 919 00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:25,480 I want to thank you, Carole Counihan, for for sharing your thoughts, your hopes, 920 00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:29,200 your dreams, and your knowledge, your knowledge of 921 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,520 you know, those 40 years that you've been doing food studies.